Calcium WAY high, what to do 1100PPM!

[Austintatious]

Salinity - 1.024 (using Pinpoint digital meter)
dKH (hardness) - 5
Calcium - 1100ppm
Calcium, measured with water 50% diluted - 600 (=1200 equivalent)
pH - 8.0 - 8.2
Using a Salifert test kit Magnesium is 1065ppm.

I just did a 55ish gallon WC with Coralife salt.

My corals are NOT happy at all. Zoas and yellow polyps closed

Any Ideas?

I know I need to get my alk up... how do alk and calcium interrelate? will higher alk drive calcium down?

 

[Monti]

DO NOT get your alk up right now, worry about getting your calcium lower first. Alk and calcium will react, creating a fog out in your tank. Keep doing water changes until your calcium gets down to a lower level. Then you can bump your alk back up. With readings like that, it wouldn't hurt to double check it with another test kit as well, just to make sure its ok.

 

[chappy]

i cant believe your ca is that high if so i believe your tank would resemble a snow globe
dont know what your test kit is but......
cut that number in half and it would seem close to right
not slamming you just doubting that number
why not take a water sample to mid cities and pay them to test your dkh ca and mag and get a second opinion that way
i would focus on over a few days getting your mag up to 1300 100ppm a day
then work on the dkh and ca
keep us informed

 

[rckrzy1]

@chappy wrote:

NO WAY your calcium is over 1K , get another test kit , or take to a LFS. And make sure your pinpoint is accurate, check against a another device.

 

[Austintatious]

Thanks all for the responses...

I forgot to mention this is a 250 gallon system.

I do have a slight haze in the water.

The test is believed to be accurate. The Low ph and mag can lead to a high calcium reading (so i read). Also the test was verified on different water AND by diluting my water by 50% with RODI and getting a half value reading.

 

[chrisT]

Im home most of the day if you would like me to bring my test kits over just for a second opinion.

 

[bimmerzs]

@chappy wrote:

Yep....usually when calcium levels rise to over 550ppm, the calcium combines with carbonates(KH) and precipitates out of the water.

Cheers,

 

[Austintatious]

@chrisT wrote:

That would be awesome... I can use all the help I can get! just give me a shout. 817-996-4900

 

[EL34]

I made all the tests on Austin's water. I agree with the suggestions for seeking second testings, I also couldn't believe the 1100 Ca. Diluting by 50% was a sanity check. I used an API kit, then confirmed it with a second API kit. Both kits read my own tank at 500ppm.

I compared alk readings taken with my API kit and his new ELOS kit on my tank, they were almost identical.

I occasionally check calibration of the Pinpoint salinity meter, it is always spot on. But his salinity was not bad at 1.024.

As he said, his water has a noticable cloudiness and we theorized it may be the snowstorm, even with low alk. Or maybe that's what rotted away the alk. He is also running down the source of microbubbles, so it's kinda hard to visually know what's happening.

Maybe significant- his 200lb of 'liverock' is homemade. He made it with oyster shells and portland cement, and 'cured' it for 6 weeks or so. A thought is that possibly the Ca tests could be affected by something in the rock.

His sand is a mix of ultrawhite and brown aragonite sold for use with reptiles or turtles or something, not aquariums. But we think aragonite is aragonite (unless it isn't).

We're gonna run tests on a new batch of saltwater before it goes in the tank.

Bill

 

[bimmerzs]

With the alk that low and "possible" high Ca then it may well be precipitating out of solution but still would be hard pressed for calcium to reach the level you are measuring. Water changes will not stop this reaction if this is indeed what is happening. The homemade LR "shouldn't" be an issue <u>with the ingredient's listed</u>, high ph is usually the result of not properly curing it and it looks like his is ok in that regard(although some natural LR should be in there as well). Curious as to when this occurred, from the start or after something was added??

Cheers,

 

[EL34]

Ron, no doubt you can add some good advice.

A few minutes ago I used a new API Ca test kit-
my tank - 470
Austin's water - 1060

No one would believe Ca that high, I was theorizing that something from the rock, not necessarily Ca, was fooling the test kit.

Side note- this is Austin's first SW tank (250gal!), he is very intelligent and incredibly energetic, appreciates all help, and is hellbent to win. Fun guy to work with. And he bought me beer.

Bill

 

[Austintatious]

ChrisT came over and verified the high calcium results :/

As for any questions about the DIY rock in my tank... It was done exactly the same as the "published" recipe.. I cured it over 4-6 weeks by changing the water in my barrel every 2-3 days. For what it is worth, the water in the curing barrel had VERY high ph and alk. I waited until this water tested closer to the tap water level before slowly introducing it into my tank.

I

 

[bimmerzs]

@Austintatious wrote:

@bimmerzs wrote:

Maybe you missed my question??

Cheers,

 

[Austintatious]

yes I suppose i did miss the question...

unfortunately the whole story is a long one. the short version is that the low ph and alk has been going on a while now. I dont know about the calcium because i dont have a kit.

here is a basic history of tank...

completely empty, filled with RODI water and mixed salt in the bare tank for several days.
Added a variety of sand, all was aragonite/calcium carbonate.
added about 15 lbs of LR for seed
Started cycle by throwing about 4 jumbo shrimp in to rot.

I was not paying super close attention to anything but the nitrogen cycle at this point.

I added fish after the cycle was mostly complete... these being 3 chromis which i still have.

My DIY rock had been curing all this time, with me doing complete water changes every 2-3 days. it was still raising the ph and alk of the water in the curing barrel when I started slowly putting it in the tank... i started putting it in because my ph and alk in the tank were dropping....perhaps it was the wrong thing to do but I figured the rock would help keep it up where it should be... and it did for a while. I kept adding rock and parameters stayed good. Once I had put in all the rock I could fit the plummet began. I added buffer to keep it up... however at one point I noticed that my nitrates never hit 0.... this got me bothered.. since at this point I had about 8 chromis, I decided to just leave the damn tank alone and perhaps things would correct themselves. I did a 30 gallon WC and left the tank alone for about 3 weeks...

I kept my fish fed and they never seemed stressed. I still had nitrites detected in my water. Ph and alk were low... used buffer.

I got a better test kit and it showed my nitrites were .025 ppm alk non existant and ph on the low side. Fish were all good... In fact i have had no troubles except for trying to get started with corals. they must be orders of magnitude tougher than corals.

I bought some yellow polyps... they have been closed since they got here a week ago.

I just came from Bills place and he gave me some pulsing zenia and a few kenya trees. a few of the pulsing zenias are still pulsing, some of them are "fisted" up and looking bad. The kenya tree looks unhappy.

My best guess at what is going on is that the low ph and alk has allowed the sand and oyster shell in my rock to leach out tons of calcium into the water, which is driving the ph low... I think if I keep dosing alk slowly but surly things will come into order... I think i should dose alk for a week and then hit the tank with another WC and be sure to dose alk to the new water if necessary.

i have taken other measures such as running outside air intake for my skimmer and adding some macro algae.

this is a I can come up with on my own... i have had several warn that if I dose alk it will cloud up the water... however when i do dose I get an initial "snowflake" effect and then it goes away... the water is slightly hazy but it isn't horrible.

I cant seem to find a supplement for magnesium alone. I am about 200ppm low... should I try the Epsom salt method to get it up initially?

any other input?

 

[jbt067000]

@Austintatious wrote:

I use Seachem Calcium Supplement, (I wouldn't use it right now if I were you) it maintains magnesium. My mag levels are always good.

 

[Austintatious]

@jbt067000 wrote:

I use Seachem Calcium Supplement, (I wouldn't use it right now if I were you) it maintains magnesium. My mag levels are always good."]

yea I don't need any more calcium!

 

[dixonallred]

What have you been using to buffer the pH and Alk? Kent Tech M is a good supplement to rasie Mag.

 

[Austintatious]

I have been using kent buffer.

Ive been reading and I dont think I need to worry about my magnesium right now.... Its function is to INCREASE the waters ability to hold MORE calcium... adding more magnesium would only make my high calcium level more difficult to get under control.

here is a simplified version of what I have come to understand by burning out my eyes and brain on the net trying to fix my problem ( in no particular order)

- high Calcium will usually be accompanied by low alk/ph
- low calcium will usually be accompanied by higher alk/ph
- There CAN be situations where both the alk/ph and calcium are high or low, these are completely different circumstances.
- Calcium is constantly trying to precipitate ( come out of solution ) out of the seawater
- magnesium inhibits the precipitation, therefore proper levels aid in keeping calcium levels UP
- Magnesium is also important for a lot of critters ( not my concern at the moment)


SO... if this is all correct ( PLEASE tell me if I am wrong) then i believe my analysis of my situation is correct... to recap, low alk and ph levels caused the all the calcium sources in my tank ( the sand and oyster shell rock) to dissolve out into the water. The corrective action IMHO is to get the ph and alk up to proper levels and keep them there diligently. This should cause the excess calcium to precipitate out of solution and result in lower levels. This will happen quicker if I allow the slightly low magnesium levels. A water change ina week or so probably couldn't hurt either provided I ensured proper alk/ph and calcium leves.

This is the best I can come up with so far... if anyone sees anything I have misunderstood I will greatly appreciate ANY input.

 

[bimmerzs]

Now this is my opinion but it sounds like your parameters are wayyyyy skewed and out of balance somehow. You really need to remove the livestock to a stable environment and then try to figure out and correct the issue. I really don't suggest adding alk supplements as it sounds like you are teetering on the edge of a major crash if you continue. If you have nitrites at all, that is a sure sign that your bioload is too much for your bacteria bed to handle. I really would pull the livestock and perform a series of 50% or greater, waterchanges until you get your parameters closer to baseline NSW values. Once things are baseline, monitor ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels, if a mini cycle kicks off let it cycle until Am and nitrites are zero then perform another waterchange to bring nitrates closer to zero. Take a snapshot of our Alk,Ca and Mg also so you can track the calcium to see if it rises....do not dose anything during this period. If calcium starts to rise then you will have your answer as far as the rock etc is causing the issue, if so then I think you know what to do with it. You gotta get the parameters to a sane level before fine tuning them especially with a few unknowns in the equation. It is not as simple as dosing alk to level out calcium......doesn't exactly work like that with all of the interaction between the elements. So to recap...critters out, massive waterchanges to get parms to NSW levels, verify no cycle kicks off, monitor levels to check for rising calcium levels, no dosing...etc. etc. This just what I would do, others will surely have opinions on this as well. Good luck bro. Your ph would have to be extremely low to dissolve the sand and shells....your critters would be dead and your sandbed would be a solid brick probably.

Cheers,

 

[Austintatious]

Thanks for the input ... out of curiosity are you a BMW lover like me?

@bimmerzs wrote:

Well, at least WRT Ca alk and ph.

I will probably pull the corals if i don't see some improvement soon... the fish would be difficult if not impossible to catch and really dont seem bothered.

Can you elaborate?

My nitrites are around .25 ppm in a downward trend. My 250 gallon tank has:

6- 1.5" chromis
1- 4" lawnmower blenny
1- 5" bi-color angel
1- 2" false perc

the bio load is fantastically small all things considered.

If I was to try to solve the problem with water change I would be better off to just do one massive change, especially if the livestock was removed. It may come to that f things don't start improving.

I am hesitant to take these drastic steps for a few reasons.

1. Only the corals are showing signs of stress
2. This could get me to reasonable levels but will start me back at square 1... while my calcium is high and my magnesium is a tad low, things are starting to look better.... If I do several massive water changes who knows how I will end up... I may end up plummeting my alk/ph again and be in the same boat.

can you elaborate on this as well?

which leads me to believe it isnt THAT bad, considering a my fish are doing well. ( I lost a wrass after a 20% water change trying to help things :/)
I did have a small area of sand clump up... the rest of it is still loose.