- Bogus or not?

M

masta

[Hello, My girlfriend has located a website which I think is full of hype, lacks any technical details, and in general uses too many persuasive devices found in propaganda (e.g., bandwagoning, testimonials, transfer, glittering generalities, emotional word repetition, bait and switch, etc). The website seems to have an emphasis on the notion of using Algae as a superior method of filtration, and flatly rejects bacterial systems.

I'm humbly asking the forum to review, and respond here of what you might have in the way of an assessment of that stuff. Before I must apologize for asking you to be exposed to the hype, but we must cut though it, and get at the core. I will leave out my personal opinion of the site, because my g/f will be reading this, and I want to seem neutral in favor of letting the wisdom of you more experienced folks weigh in appropriately.

So here is the site: http://www.eztank.com/

FYI: Your answes will help her decision of choosing a hang-on style bio-wheel type filter, or not. Or even possibly change herr opinion on the type of fitler she should get. Probably a f/w tank but I figure this conversation crosses the boundry's of any tank system, or habitate including s/w.

Thanks in advance :bow:]



Edited By masta on 1102705483
 
[I will have to agree with Matt, After 20 min on the website I am still not sure what I'm looking at. I will read through a little later. I do have one problem, They want to charge you $5.95 for thier information package. I don't like that idea.]
 
[I'm very skeptical. I read a whopping 5 minutes so I can't give an honest opinion but I don't plan on taking the time to read it either after the first 5 minutes :p

1) Normally companies would not charge for an information pack or make you give them a ton of marketing info (so they can no doubt follow up hound you). I'm guessing the info pack will be a bunch of crypic market blah blah anyway. Why would they tell you what their "patented process" is actually doing?

2) "Ideal for fresh, marine, and brakish enviroments" Generally this is almost impossible. Fresh and marine are very different especially in filtration so I find this statement a warning sign.

3) In the 5 minutes of reading that I did looks like they simply promote big algal scrubbers with prefilters. Nothing Earth shattering here. They work. Most of the time we don't have enough room to create a proper algal scrub system but if you dedicated most of your entire sump to that it would work no doubt!

So I guess my opinion is they have a system that will work but I would not spend a lot of money on it. It is a simple system to set up and there is lots of free literature on how to set up an algal turf scrubber. Oh ya and they push lots of turbulent water movement and lots of light. Glad they figured it out!]



Edited By kwl1763 on 1102711996
 
[agree with the above. Been in business since '88 but i haven't seen any reviews nor articles concerning them in any of the popular mags and forums.

sounds like snake oil to me :shocked:

the web site may be the smoke and screen tactic :stare:

maybe as good as wrapping some magnets around the return lines from the sump to the tank .... :rasp:]
 
[My migraine from the last five minutes of reading has kicked in as well!

"Again, nature does NOT use bacteria to filter
oceans, lakes, or streams. To the surprise of
many reef enthusiasts, nature also does not
use Protein Skimming, "live rock," thick
layers of sand, or anything else to filter
dissolved animal waste from the water!
(Our Information Package discusses
all of this in more detail.)"

I have a very hard time accepting the fact that all of the bacteria found in nature does little to contribute to its filtration. Protein skimming is also a natural phenomena that does occur.
Algae does provide a great deal of filtration, but 100% of it - Im just not convinced. The oceans, lakes, and rivers are far too complex a system.

The website has no actual information on how their products function. They have no studies listed to back it up, nor any biologists endorsing it.

I say its bogus. Stick with real, trusted and proven methods when setting up your tank.]
 
[That is the exact same paragraph that caused me to stare sideways at my monitor. I'm also sure the "proper mechanical filtration" they elude to is not found in nature either.

So basicly it comes down to a questions of this site putting sufficient reasonable doubt in my g/f's mind to cause worry about getting a bio-wheel filter. I mean there is the issue about nitrates getting out of control, and there is obviously some merrit to using algae too.

Regarding their patents, I just remembered that the USPO has some new search capability online. I might take it for a spin later tonight. :idea:]
 
[The type of filtration that will work best for you will depend on the type of setup you are trying to maintain. Biowheels are great for FW setups but not great for SW.
I am a sump lover. I think even if I were to go back to FW (never) I would try to sump it. Its quiet, effective, and there is no equipment in the tank.
Its all about what will work best for the animals you want to keep and the type of maintenance you are comfortable with.]
 
[Amanda: she will probably grow from f/w to s/w someday, so a filter that works everywhere (yeah I know it doesn't exist) would be ideal.

Ironicly these people seem to be sellig a sump/refugium with protine skimmer, and the algae scruber looks wide and flat. I found some photo's that I'm deeplinking:

the algae scrub thingy:
AScrub2.JPG
alt="">



Their pre-filter:
ProPref2.JPG
alt="">


Anyways, thanks for the input folks! =)]
 
[The Penguin (maybe other brands as well) biowheel filters will work on both environments. Simply remove the biowheels if converting to SW. You may decide you want something totally different when switching over though, and you will certainly want to add a skimmer.]
 
[What's great about those pictures is that they contradict the text on the site (ouch, my head!) ) . They frown upon skimmers and naturally occuring bacteria, yet their pre-filter contains a protein skimmer, and if I'm not mistaken, a pouch of ceramic filter media, which is generally used as a place to grow aerobic bacteria. :no:

Who knows, it could be a great product, but their marketing isn't honest, and in my opinion stinks.]
 
[The ocean doesn't use Live Rock for filtration?
bwahaha.gif
alt=""> How do SPS survive in nature, when the water needs to be pristine? Trust me, there's filtration going on, plus symbiotic algaes and of course 'dilution (is the solution to pollution)' between reefs in the vast oceans.

The ocean doesn't skim itself? Ever seen foam along the shoreline? That happens naturally as water crashes against rock - oxygenating the water.

I don't even need to visit that website at this point, just from the one quote and the samples of their products.]
 
[That website hurts my eyes trying to read it. If they were legit, they wouldn't have to make their website so confusing and annoying to look at. :Oo:]
 
@Amanda wrote:
["Again said:
[Well Marc, you beat me to it, but like you said in other words, "What a load of crap"! That paragraph alone, would make me not believe anything else they said. :no:]
Click to expand...
 
[Of course nature doesn't do those things, it's the aliens! :alien: They use the dissolved animal waste for mind control to make us spend money on things that don't work. :eek:oh:]
 
[the engineer and scientist in me got me curious so i researched the uspto site for the patent. found patent # 5097795 that describes an ecosystem for small scale marine systems utilizing dense algae mats as fiiltration. the methodology is simple relying upon dense volumes of algae, high water flow and strong light to support high efficiency of photosynthesis to clean the water of organics, nutrients, and CO2. Many of us are doing a small form of this by keeping macroalgae in our refugiums, but this patent describes it as a stand-alone filtration method that is precise and controlled.

so, the site is probably legit despite being very tedious and confusing to wade through.

IMO, such system may be a big PITA to keep controlled and efficient. It does seem to be very dependant upon strong water flow and light requiring HIGH EFFCIENCY of the photosynthesis process. Bio and Water control within the main tank is already enough of an issue for most of us. The patent doesn't discuss much about control of inorganics, which I suspect will be a prob if this method is the sole filtration method for a marine tank.

One of the 1st thoughts i had was concerning algae control. how would one deal with an algae breakout in the main tank? or what happens when my algae filter begins to die?

in summary, no thanks.... I'll stick with my sump, dsb, lr and skimmer.]
 
[Howard, you beat me to the punch. I too looked and found that same USPO number, but I'm now looking for prior art. If anybody has some old printed materials about this type of filtration from before 1990, I would like to hear from you. That being said I went back and looked at that site carefully, and nowhere do they claim to own the patent, just that the technology is patented. Maybe they have an exclusive license, but I doubt that too.

The patent is here at the US Patent Office.]
 
[Just google "Algae Turf Scrubber" and you'll find lots of information on setting up a system.

Basically you want your water to pour across sheets of angled screen or acrylic so that the surface has a continual thin layer of water. Just like a river runs over rocks and the rocks become slimy with algae, this is the same procedure. Aiming lights at those surfaces will encourage algae growth. Many ATS use Green Hair Algae as their export, and using mutiple layers they can remove one at a time as the need occurs. I've seen thread in the DIY forum on Reef Central about these, but I don't know anyone from our club that has implemented one on their reef tank.]
 
[Hey Marc,


When I first met Barry he had one, although not hooked up to a tank.

I read a bit one them and it seem like you need water to surge, ie should be flooded with water then allowed to drain, repeat.]
 
[Yeah, I forgot about that. I think the last version I saw had a SCWD hooked up so that it would work on one panel, then the other while the first one drained, etc.

I never saw the one Barry had.]
 
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