Another newb - Just registered today -- need info

W

Will

[Hey all, found this board (and user group!) this afternoon while Googling for info on marine setups.

My wife and I started in the fish hobby a little over a year ago, we have a 42 gallon Oceanic hex tank and a little basic 20 gallon tank in our kids' room. Both are freshwater. We've really taken to the hobby together, and are looking to make the plunge into saltwater. As our joint Christmas present we're looking to get a 100+ gallon tank setup. After reading a lot of stuff online, I don't think we're ready for the time committment or expertise required for a reef system, and have decided to go fish only at least to start (at some point we'd like to get into coral/live rock though ... in considering my questions below though, think FO and not worry about future reef, we'd probably start that in a separate tank).

Even after talking to "Grumpy" at Dallas North Aquarium this evening, we're still left with some confusion over what exactly we need to do a fish only saltwater tank in terms of filtration, pumps, and lighting. Are things like sumps, wet/dry filters, and metal halide lighting more along the lines of running a reef tank than FO? If we got say a 115-150g tank, can we just hang a couple of biowheels on the back for filtration in a FO setup? Assuming a protein skimmer is still needed in FO, if so would a hang on the back type of thing work? What type of lighting should we be looking at for this type of setup?

Unfortunately I'm not very DIY-inclined, and it doesn't help that much of the info I've found on the web is rather vague in terms of setup (I understand that there are many ways to accomplish things, which makes it difficult to be specific in some cases).

I've been looking through the sell/buy forum as well, because if we can find a good deal on a complete set that would be ideal ... you know, hook it all up, fill it up, and add fish type of thing :)

Anyway, looking forward to getting more involved and learning a lot, and maybe at some point having enough knowledge to actually contribute :)]
 
[Forget the biowheels. They'll do some good for mechanical filtration, but not totally necessary.

Hang-on protein skimmer is a must. Things are easier with a sump, but not necessary.

Any kind of lighting will do for a FO tank. Metal-Halides, T5s, and to some extent even PC lighting is more for coral on certain invertibrates. I would look into a PC setup though, because the brightness really makes the tank look better than standard aquarium lights.

I would still recommend doing a FOWLR and forget about the wet dry. The wet dry gives the good bacteria a place to live; not so much needed when you have Live Rock. Plus, you need something to decorate the tank. :)]
 
[Well, like I said we really don't feel that taking on LR from the beginning is the best option for us. We're probably better off getting the hang of SW tanks in general before potentially killing hundreds of dollars worth of LR. Not just that, but the higher maintenance demands of LR vs. FO (as well as the startup costs), well ...it's just not what we're ready for at this point. For decorations we're comfortable starting with fake stuff.

What about live sand? Does that have the same maintenance requirements as live rock in terms of extra lighting, water flow/filtration and such? I could see maybe doing fish only with live sand, unless maintenance and equipment needs are comparable with LR.

Ultimately while we want a fairly big tank, we're trying to keep it pretty simple. As we get more experienced we'll look at reef systems down the road, but for now that's more than we're up for.]
 
[You can't really 'kill' live rock, short of letting it dry out. It does have a higher startup cost, but doesn't need good lighting. Something to think about...it's seriously the easiest way to start a tank.

Get some substrate, a little live sand, and some live rock. Let the tank 'cycle' for 2-4 weeks, then add some common fish.]
 
[I'm under the impression that if you go with LR, you need at least 1lb per gallon. Maybe I don't have a good visual for what that translates to as far as how much room in the aquarium that takes up, and maybe I have a fundamental lack of understanding as to "live rock" as it related to corals/reef systems. Is that not what LR referes to?

Likewise, am I right in thinking that a LR setup will require power heads and a sump, which wouldn't be required in a FO setup?

As you can tell, I'm very new to this, and am struggling a bit to get my mind wrapped around everything involved. So forgive the elementary questions :) I'm trying to read and absorb everything I can at this point.]
 
[BTW
STay away from dallas north aquarium
I would recomend going out to plano. Go east on 3040 (round grove rd turns into hebron which turns into park) make a left on custer and just before parker turn left into the shopping center with the albertsons. Its called exotic aquatics. They are very helpful and a trip there would be benificial.]



Edited By CodyRay on 1101358651
 
[Have you been to my site yet?

http://www.melevsreef.com

And please read this brief overview:

http://www.melevsreef.com/overview.htm

Later, when you want to get into Sumpology 101:

http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

Now, to answer your question - we need to know the tank size you are going to start with. You mentioned 100g, but seemed open to other sizes as well.

LR is your filtration, and is purely natural. There is nothing to clean out or replace. The more rock you have, the better your filtration. Obviously, if the rock is very dense, it will be heavy and yet take up little space. More porous rock will take up more area, and is usually lighter. Many times you can buy LR from people in our For Sale forum for $2 to $4 a lb. There is a chance the rock has nuisance algae on it, but this is removable.

If you buy LR at the local fish store (LFS), be sure it is cured. It should look and smell clean and salty, not vile and repulsive. The latter is uncured and will pollute your tank and raise ammonia (toxic). Also, if you start off slowly and keep small fish, you won't need as much LR at first. You can always add more cured LR as your budget allows.

You want a good skimmer, so be sure to ask before you buy to avoid wasting money.

PC or VHO lighting is fine for a FO tank.

LS (live sand) is a good thing. But all you need is dry (dead) sand to start, and then add a few cups of LS from someone else's tank to 'seed' your substrate. Over the next six months, it will mature.

I don't recommend fake ornaments because they tend to attract nuisance algae like a magnet and you'll be cleaning them all the time. Clean LR can look quite nice and your fish will feel at home.]
 
[Thanks for the reply Marc!

Yes, my wife and I both visited your site this evening, but I think we got distracted looking at the 14 day project :)

I'll take a look at the articles you linked to (tomorrow, I'm on my way to bed in a few minutes), and CodyRay who is also in Lewisville has graciously invited me to stop by in a couple of days and see his setup and have it explained to me. It's slowly coming together mentally for us, but we have a ways to go. I think we've been convinced though that LR/LS is something we want to have, and that it isn't as high of a maintenance thing as we'd previously thought (due to my misunderstanding thinking live rock = reef system).

We appreciate the help and advice!]
 
[oh... tank size. We're not dead set on something, though the dimension of 48" long fits best in our living room. I've looked at a 115g on glasscages.com that looks promising, LxWxH 48x18x31 (or possibly the 150g @ 48x24x31). The 115g tank/stand/canopy there is $488, whereas the 150g is $650), and since they are coming to Dallas 12/4 there wouldn't be shipping. A couple of ones in the sell/buy forum looked interesting, like the 135g Oceanic that someone was selling.

In other words, we don't have a specific tank picked out, just a ballpark of what we're after.

Realistically, we're probably on a budget of $2000 max starting up, though we'd like to keep it as low as reasonably possible without compromising reliability and stability. In trying to figure out the equipment needs, I'm also trying to figure out if the budget is realistic for this. Ultimately the thing that got us pointed towards a marine setup is that the fish tend to be more colorful and such than freshwater, so it's the fish that is the focus for us rather than coral/reef and such.]
 
[That might be why there are 28 fish in my 280g reef. :D]
 
[Just to clarify will, I am far from an expert, but I definately wouldnt mind sharing the info i have learned so far :D . Ill give you a shout on friday Will.]



Edited By CodyRay on 1101367690
 
[At this point I suggest you read a good book, and there are others, but one I suggest is, "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist", by Robert Fenner. Some good book like this would give you the basic you are seeking.]
 
[There are a lot of good websites - including this one! - that can help. A couple more - and one goes along with the book mentioned above - is www.wetwebmedia.com. Another is Reef Central.

However, this site is the best to get immediate answers from! The people are local, and there is almost always somebody "here".

Welcome to the "hobby", and ask anything you like!]
 
[yeah, I've spent a lot of time on wetwebmedia.com already, but the FAQ stuff and getting started articles tend to be pretty vague, I'm assuming because of the sheer amount of flexibility in terms of how you go about setting a system up.

I think the main thing right now is seeing a functioning system and along with the visual seeing what the purpose of each piece of equipment is. That'll probably bring a lot of the reading together.

We're looking forward to getting going on this, but at the same time we also are patient enough to not rush it.]
 
[I wish I would have reserched a little more before purchasing my tank. I would have gone with a wider tank, not just for the extra aquascaping room in the tank but also the extra room under the tank. BTW my tank is a 140 60x18x30.]
 
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