An introduction and thanks

K

Kelly Mac

Hello Everyone,
My name is Kelly and I'm from Fort Worth. I've kept freshwater fish all of my life. Over the past few years I've accumulated well over 700 gallons of water in my house. I breed and raise show bettas and they're a lot of work. I have an entire room dedicated to only them. Last year I won the Texas Showperson of the Year award, and Novice Grand Championship with the International Betta Congress. I'm very active in the Texas Betta Society, we host a couple of shows a year so maybe some of you can stop by sometime. Our next show is in May. I also moderate on a website called fishforums.net, I've been there for several years but I'm always in the betta section. Our saltwater area is pretty small and limited so I need you guys.

Currently I keep a few tanks dedicated to one fish, which is a waste, I know, but I love them. I have a 120g with a midas, a 70g with a red devil, a 30 with a trio of L200 green phantoms that I've had for a few years- my goal with them is to hopefully have the first bred in captivity someday. Maybe. And I have a tank of kribs...millions of kribs (anybody want some kribs? :lol: )

I recently traded my colony of Frontosa for store credit. It all started when I built a sump for their tank, then I thought "hmmm, well, I'm really close to salt now!" so I decided to go ahead and go for it. With freshwater,cichlids in particular, I've been very limited. I haven't had a new fish in a year it seems. So I'm excited about the SW because I'll be able to pick up new things here and there. A work in progress if you will.

I'm nervous,nervous,nervous. All I've done for the past couple of weeks is read,read,read. Thanks so much for such a wonderful site, you all are a wealth of information and I like that you're all local and close by.

I just came home from Fish Paradise with my sand! I still need to drain the old tank of freshwater and gravel. From there I really don't know what to do. Mr.Ly is ordering a canopy for me so I can get VHO lights. I was going to get the Odyssea (sp?) compact lights but I don't want to start off sub-par. I might as well wait a week or so and do it right. This is getting really expensive though and I'm having second thoughts...but not. Maybe it's regret? I miss my frontosa but I know I'll love having a saltwater tank.

So, are there any money saving tips you guys can give me? I know with fw there are all sorts of tricks to do things efficiently. I feel like a complete newb again buying everything from my lfs- when there are probably things I can get at Home Depot for way cheaper.

So tonight my master plan is to tear down my old tank- wash my sand, then Monday I'll go get my water and the ball should be rolling. I was stressing out about $$$ thinking my lights were #1, but today Mr.Ly said not to worry about those just yet, and I agreed, he's right.
(By the way, if you guys haven't been in there in a while, it's worth the stop. Ever since he's opened the new shop it has grown a lot! He has several very,very nice display tanks...one in particular that swayed me towards salt, I thought I'd die a freshie!)

Anyhoo, that's my ramblings. I appreciate all of your advice and I shall be around alot over the next..errr..who knows how long?!? :lol:
 
Welcome to the boards, Kelly! I'm in FTW, too, near Mr. Ly's place.

You can ask anything you like on these boards, someone will answer you.

And the best advice I can give as to money-saving = watch our For Sale Forum. Lots of folks get rid of stuff they no longer use (especially after an upgrade!) and you can get good deals.
 
Thanks,Kitty! I've actually been eyeballing the buy/sell forum here for a couple years. I'm friends with an old employee of Mr.Ly's (Cheryl, you might remember her?) and she browses this board sometimes when she's over. I've popped in looking for tanks on occasion. Now...if only someone would post a couple hundred pounds of live rock for sale! :p Oh baby!
 
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Howdy and welcome!!!

One word of caution - If you're converting a freshwater tank to salt, if you've ever treated the contents of the tank with a copper based medication, it can cause problemd for you down the road when (Believe me, it's when, not if) you start adding inverts and corals... Just something to consider now rather than a year down the road and have it come back and bite you...
 
Thanks for that,Serk. Thankfully I've never treated that tank for anything but I do have one concern. A couple years ago I brought home a bag of snails for my clown loaches and they never ate them...so that tank has had a severe snail problem for some time (glad it never spread to my other tanks!)
So, tonight when I take it down I can't be certain that it's absolutely clean of snail...debris? Eggs, etc...is that ok? Or should I clean it as best I can? I just don't want an unwanted/unforeseen ammonia spike. Or worse!

See what a newb I am? I feel so ignorant :lol: But it's good!
 
You're not ignorant, you're just learning a new aspect of a hobby you obviously love... :) You've got a BIG head start on most newbies out there, both with your freshwater experience, and your obvious willingness to research and learn...

Whatever you do, do NOT use any of the snail-a-cide's... They're almost universally copper based, and bad news in the long term... If it were me, I'd just take everything out and rinse it down good with water. I wouldn't worry about any freshwater snail eggs hatching in a saltwater environment, but it couldn't hurt to fill the tank with water, and put some bleach into the water (Problem - I have no clue how much is effective and safe) and run a powerhead for a while, just make sure you rinse the tank out really well with freshwater after doing this to get the last remnants of salt out.

And keep in mind, the only difference between a freshwater aquarium and a saltwater aquarium is that a saltwater aquarium has salt in the water... :)

(And yeah, there's a lot more to it than that obviously, I've just always loved that saying)
 
Ok, I had thought of the filling it with water and bleach (I'll just wing the bleach with the ol' bartenders wrist) but I wasn't sure if that was a bad move before salt,thanks for that. I can't process the thought that it's all the same, it's like whole new world I say!
I think I'll run my old filters through it too, that will kill off the snails in there and I can use them on other tanks without fear of another outbreak.

Ok then, that's what I'll do tonight. The shop being closed on Sunday is really throwing a spoke in my wheels here but maybe that's helping me not to rush as well.

We're extremely excited I tell ya! I have a 7 year old daughter and today she was going bonkers over all the things we can have someday! We've only glanced at the marine aisles in the past, it's different shopping and knowing you can actually buy someday :D
 
Kelly, a few dead snails probably wouldn't be a bad thing.. your tank is going to cycle at some point, so having it happen at a time of your choosing, rather than when you add your first fish is a good thing.

You mention filters and a sump.. Are you planning to use the sump for the SW tank, or the hang on back filters, or both? The reason I ask is that if the filters have bio-wheels or ceramic rings / plastic balls / etc, that can cause problems for a reef tank. (Not so big a problem for a fish only system, given religous water changes.)
 
Thanks Scott,
I'll use those other canister filters on my midas tank :wink:

I have a question about temperature, not sure if I should post a new topic or not. I've searched around a bit and the answer differs...
What's the usual temperature range for a reef tank?
I keep my freshwater at room temp. I'm a firm believer in the idea of "If you are comfortable- your fish are comfortable" and this works well for me and the fish. My house usually stays around 74'ish in the winter,80-82 in the summer. I'm thinking that I'm going to have a harder time keeping it cool in the summer.

I'd like to know how everyone feels on that subject. Is cooler better than warmer? What about a night time cool down? Does that just come with the lights being off?

I know with bettas, heh heh, they prefer cooler (although some would argue with me!).I have some wild caught bettas spawning their little tails off over the past couple of weeks ever since it iced. They're inside with a space heater of course but they have terribly drastic swings in temp and betta fry are incredibly fragile itty bitty things- yet they thrive with fluctuating temps. I have well over 400 Mahachai fry right now, and the mouthbrooding bettas go berzerk in the chilly weather.

OoOh, one more question. Will any of the corals or anything take baby brine? I have hatcheries going every day and I can't even tell you how much of it I waste hatching fresh daily for betta fry.
 
The normal temps for a reef tank are between 78 and 82. I have my tank on a controller and it turns on the heater once my tank temp falls below 79.0 and if my tank temp is above 81 then it will turn on my fans for cooling. If my tank temp hits 83, my lights will turn off to aid in cooling.
 
@Kelly Mac wrote:
I have a question about temperature said:
Typically, 72-82 is the recommended range for a fish only system, and reef systems demand a tighter range. Anywhere from 76 to 82 is the target, with the more important factor being to keep the temperature swing within 3 degrees or so. Unfortunately, the high lighting requirements of reef tanks tend to heat the water more, so keeping cool is usually the harder proposition. (Especially if you end up getting metal halide lighting.) There are even in-line chillers that folks use to keep from cooking their tanks. Others use fans blowing over their sumps to increase evaporation, which lowers the temperature.

Personally, my tanks stay between 78-82 max (typically 79.5-81.5).

@Kelly Mac wrote:
OoOh said:
Brine make a good 'treat' for fish, especially picky eaters, or wild caught specimens that may not be used to eating prepared / frozen foods. The problem with brine is that they're only as nutritious as what they've been fed. If you're raising your own, and supplementing their diet, they're definitely better than your average LFS live brine. As someone else pointed out, most brine = potato chips.
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Hi Kelly,

I know you've been reading a lot, and getting input from many, but what we don't know is what exactly you've read thus far. So...

http://www.melevsreef.com/overview.htm

Regarding cleaning the tank - use bleach water, rinse well, and let it air out for a day. Now it is ready to use. Same with any equipment you want to use.

Regarding washing the sand - I did the same and it can work if you rinse it and rinse it and rinse it. Pour it into a bucket about 1/3 full, then take your garden hose on full blast and swirl the sand around and around until the water remains clear during the procedure. Pour off the water and add the sand to your tank.

Regarding water - we always recommend RO/DI water to keep the water as pure as possible. If you don't have an RO/DI unit yet, you should get one now. You can by RO water from Mr Ly, but then I recommend you buy a TDS meter now so you can make sure it is pure. You want it to be 0 TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) if possible. Anything under 10 is good, but we all aim for 0.

Lighting is always up for sale here. Hold off on buying lights, and see if you can score a retro kit or even a full set up here on the board.

Keep asking questions before you do anything, and we'll help you save money, so you can afford those fish and corals you like.
 
Hi Marc, I can't seem to get that link to work.

For now I've decided to take it slow. My tank is empty,cleaned and ready. I skipped past the bleaching/filling and just filled it half way and scrubbed it with a mild vinegar solution. I haven't even washed the sand yet as I'm still debating on moving the tank to a different spot. Now's the time!

Today I went over to Frank's Tanks as he's nearly as close to me as FP. I never had a reason to go in there before, but it was quite impressive. I hope to do much business there in the future.

Right now I'm mainly focused on setting up correctly without making typical newbie mistakes. I'm in no rush, I was at first but I'm not anymore. I've been reading a lot about the different kinds of LR, it's pretty interesting stuff.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for lights. If nothing comes up anytime soon I'll just purchase from Frank or Mr.Ly.

Right now one of my biggest concerns is 'base rock'. I was under the impression that a reef tank was 100% live rock and the thought of spending a bajillion dollars was killing me, but I've read a lot about holey rock underneath. I'm going on the search for a few nice large pieces, I might take a trip over to Whiz Q Stone (but I read somewhere their holey rock was bunk? Have you seen it? ) Otherwise I might be able to pick up a nice piece or two somewhere. Do you use a base rock? Or is it best to keep it 100% LR? I was under the impression that if the base rock is in the tank long enough with lr it soon becomes live.
Thanks for your help!
~Kelly

By the way, I have a what to do question...

Let's say the tank is filled with water, has sand and lights, everything but it's empty. Would I
A. Add live rock and zero fish, let it cycle (for some reason I keep thinking you can starve LR, so is that not true?)
B. Add live rock and a hardy fish
C.Add live rock to my holey rock and let it run for a couple weeks or however long and then add fish (should I supply ammonia during this time or what?)
D.Jump down, turn around and pick a bail of cotton?
 
Don't be mean to the fishes. Do an ammonia cycle or get bacteria from others as detailed at this site (and others).

http://www.greenstouch.com/articles_cycle.htm
 
I understand the freshwater nitrification process, is it the same with saltwater and live rock though? Sometimes I can be thick so I just need to get it through my head...
At this point my understanding is that you put a fish in water seeded with live rock and that's how you expand your beneficial organisms and bacteria. Basically, I was thinking live rock and/or live sand creates an instant cycle or a very mild cycle at the most.
Can you fill a tank with half clean/ half cycled water, pack it with 100 pounds of live rock and call it cycled? If so,will it stay cycled without fish?
 
I fixed the link in my post. Sorry about that. Darn typos.

To start a cycle, all you need is one or two raw, dead shrimp (from the deli) in your tank for three days. That's it. Cycle started, then remove the rotting shrimp and dispose of them. Once the cycle is complete, you can begin to add livestock, including a fish perhaps. You really should try to determine what you plan to keep in your tank to know what order to add each item. For example, if you love the purple tang, and added it first, it might end up being too aggressive and kill any new additions. In that case, you'd add the tang last, and get the docile fish first.

I'm not a fan of baserock, and prefer to use only LR. However, many have opted to use baserock to save money. If you do so, it will likely take 6 months for it to get to the point of being truly live, assuming it is porous enough to achieve that. Lots of base rock looks pretty dense to me.

There is no reason to spend a fortune on LR. Just get some as you can afford it, and add it to your tank then. As long as you get it into your tank within the hour, it won't cause a cycle. Many buy LR here on the boards for $3/lb, as it comes up for sale often.

Getting some really nice stuff at your LFS is fun as well.
 
I'm most interested in the corals so if I have to wait weeks or months for my tank to be ready for them, I will.

Thanks for the shrimp tip. That's what I was looking for! Right now I'm thinking I just want to start on the rock work picking up pieces here and there and building before I purchase any livestock. This will be easier on the wallet AND my nerves :p By the way, Marc, I saw your CBB video today and it was impressive! Then we went to the zoo since it was such a nice day and they had one in their sickly (j/K!) reef tank. They're quite beautiful.

What I was really thinking of stocking with...and oh man I just forgot their name, (the little pink'ish coral orang'ish guys who like to school? Starts with an A) but anyway, slowly accumulating a large school of those and maybe a marine betta, that's about it as far as fish go. I don't want to fill it up right away.

I'll ponder on the base rock for a while. Maybe one or two large pieces to give me something to work with. Maybe not.

One thing I've noticed, you gotta stay on your toes around here in the buy/sell, you guys are quick! :p
 
Anthias.

And yes, they are the w orst. I'd use a different "w " word, but as President I have to chose my words w isely. :wink:
 
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