Alk, Ca, and Mg dosing - issues?

[Capt_krill]

Alright,

So I have been monitoring my levels for the past 3 weeks and they seem to stay right around the same with no change.

Testing with elos test kits all three, brand new mind you.

Current params alk - 6.5 dKh, Ca - 410 ppm, Mg - 1150 ppm

I dose .5 oz of alk, .5 oz of Ca and a full oz of Mg. All are the B-Ionic ESV products. (Ca buffer for Alk and Ca)

I have brought test kits over to a friend that tests with Red Sea Pro and Salifert and came out almost exactly what the other test kits were testing.

So I am not sure if i am under dosing to keep up with the consumption load or just not dosing enough for my tank size, or whatever the case may be.

I am dosing my tank around 70G considering the DSB, and amount of rock also including my sump.

I have 120G of total tank space. Should I increase the dosing amount?

Using the Reef Chemistry Calculator http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html its saying I should does 100ml of alk, 225ml of Ca and 1800ml of Mg, obviously not all at once, but does this seem a little high to anyone else?

Comments, suggestions very much appreciated.

-Tony

 

[Mike M]

I found I had to dose what I thought was a lot of Mg to get to where I wanted to be and that was just in my 70 gallon setup. I used the SeaChem AquaVitro line and ended up going through one of the 12 oz bottles pretty quickly and just ended up getting the 1 liter bottle. I used the same calculator you have linked. I got my alk levels up first and then worked on Ca & Mg after reading through various reef chemistry articles on reefkeeping.com

 

[Guest]

Bump up your alk it is really low. 8 dkh is really the lowest it should be. Also Mg needs to be higher.




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[bimmerzs]

I would slowly get the mg in line then see where everything settles at before boosting alk and ca within their respective ranges. You can slowly adjust mg by 100ppm a day, I would also use something a little cheaper to get ca/alk level's where they need to be, then use 2-part to maintain.

Cheers,

 

[Capt_krill]

I understand that my levels are low. Even Ca is starting to dip. However Ive been dosing the recommended amounts to raise it, Alk gets 7 then drops to 6.5 while even continuing to dose. What could be chewing through that much alk and mg, but not as much Ca.

Bimmerzs, what do you suggest getting Alk in check that is cheaper than what I am using that is not going to completely wreck my pH?

 

[Guest]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry




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[bimmerzs]

@kuyatwo wrote:

+1....Yor Mg level being low can wreck havoc on keeping the other parameters up. Once you get them "balanced", you should see more stability. I would use baked baking soda mixed with ro/di to get the alk up and any calcium chloride product to get the Ca up(leslie's pool supply). Unless you have the 2-part stuff from BRS, you will spend way too much money trying to raise your level's with the normal 2-part stuff.

Cheers,

 

[Capt_krill]

Just so understand what Im reading.

If pH is good (8.2+) then do not bake the baking soda keeping it at sodium bicarbonate. If it is lower than 8.2 bake the baking soda to remove CO2 thus making sodium carbonate.

 

[bimmerzs]

@Capt_krill wrote:

That is correct if you take temp into consideration as well as how you are measuring ph(kit or probe). The unbaked can have a slight lowering effect just as the baked can have a slight increase associated. You can actually do a 50/50 baked/unbaked mixure and not affect ph but since your alk in low I would do the baked or keep it super simple and get everything in range(alk/mg/ca) and then ph will be where it needs to be. Concentrate on getting ALK/CA/MG balanced, since you will not be using anything that will skyrocket Ph, you should really ignore ph until parameters are balanced...yes I said ignore ph. [smilie=lol.gif] Just go slowly wth raising those level's. [smilie=wink.gif]

Cheers,

 

[Capt_krill]

Got off the phone with the guy at ESV and he was saying that my Mg is really the weak link right now as its getting to the point of a saturation point and cant absorb any more alk or Ca, or at least that was my understanding of what he was saying. He said I could increase the 1ml per 4 gallon to 1ml/1-3 gallon to increase it.

 

[bimmerzs]

@bimmerzs wrote:

@Capt_krill wrote:

The guy sounds like he knows what he's talking about. [smilie=lol.gif]

Cheers,

 

[joelq]

Seems you're dosing too little for your size tank, although I don't know what your tank's demand is. Just to give you some perspective, I dose about 7.5 oz of each part (Alk and Ca) daily in my 90g (~100g water volume), but my tank is SPS dominated. I dose BRS 2-part, which is 75% as potent as B-Ionic (per Ryan at BRS), so would dose less B-Ionic, but not that much less.

 

[Capt_krill]

@bimmerzs wrote:

@Capt_krill wrote:

The guy sounds like he knows what he's talking about. [smilie=lol.gif]

Cheers,"]

Sorry that wasn't an attack on what you were saying, just re-posting what the manufacturer was saying.

I will probably increase dosing of the tank to 1ml/2G and see how mg does and then Alk and Ca.

 

[bimmerzs]

@Capt_krill wrote:

@Capt_krill wrote:

The guy sounds like he knows what he's talking about. [smilie=lol.gif]

Cheers,"]

Sorry that wasn't an attack on what you were saying, just re-posting what the manufacturer was saying.

I will probably increase dosing of the tank to 1ml/2G and see how mg does and then Alk and Ca."]

Oh... I didn't take it like that at all, it was just my weak attempt at humor. [smilie=smile.gif] Glad you are on your way to getting the issue resolved which is what's important.

Cheers,

 

[Capt_krill]

Got home and tested since I kind of took it upon myself this morning at 6am to dose more than what ESV says is a good starting point.

Alk 7.5 *almost 2x
Ca 420-430 *normal dose
Mg 1250 *2x

I was dosing at 80 gallons of water not 120 gallons of tank+sump. He said that at 15ml I am dosing around 1ml per 8 gallons which is WAY below what i should be dosing.

I should be dosing around 30ml (1ml per 4 gallons) of Alk and dosing for 120 gallons instead of total water.

So, this means doubling my mg, doubling my alk and i should be doing right about where i need to be in a few days.

Will keep you updated.

Thanks
-Tony

 

[bimmerzs]

Ahh....since you are doubling the amount of the alk component, are you making sure you are not getting a crazy ph spike right after dosing? You are waiting some time between dosing I'm guessing.

Cheers,

 

[Capt_krill]

24 hours.

Dose at 6am, test at 5pm everyday.

Well, technically i am not overdosing. As well, by doubling what i was doing I am now dosing what I should have been doing from the very beginning.

New pH test kit should be here this week. Old one was testing wrong so I had to order my elos test kit from BRS.

 

[bimmerzs]

@Capt_krill wrote:

It's not how much you dose, it's how much you dose at one time. At 6am you ph is most likely at it's lowest so if you just add the entire dose all at once, then that is where you coud get quite a high spike. Not saying you are getting a high spike just saying that is something to be aware of and monitor. A test kit is worthless imo no matter who makes it as it will not give you a real time picture of what your ph is doing. Good luck and go slow, if you only raise dkh by 0.5ppm daily then you should be good. Also when I asked about dosing I meant that you are not dosing ca/alk/mg all at once are you. You shold wait 20-30 minutes between dosing alk and dosing ca.

Cheers,

 

[Josh]

Dosing 30mL at once might cause spikes, espcially at a low Alk. If you don't have a pH probe monitoring the movement before/after a dosing, you aren't getting the full picture.

I bought a dosing pump to dose 24X on my tank (pretty small increments). It makes the process a lot easier. I can dose alk at 12:00, calcium at 12:20 and magnesium at 12:40 and then restart the whole process at 1:00. My controller will send an email to me if my pH swings out of my specified range, which is also great. I still test my ranges each week but it's a lot less hands off.

 

[Capt_krill]

Currently I do not have any sort of controller. Nor monitoring minus my manual test kits. Something I have been looking at getting...but just haven't had the money or time to reasearch due to time.

I have been looking at getting a controller for my light and a controller for my tank stats.

The tank controller, I would like to get something that does monitoring of pH, Salinity, Temp and can notify me, real time stats, either by SMTP / SMS / android/iphone app etc, something very basic really, at least I think it is basic. Any suggestions? I would like this same controller to be able to control dosing pumps, but totally not a requirement.

Light controller is something that I have not been able to narrow down. Profilux 2 seems promising but at $600 for the controller alone then the added cost of the extra accessories needed for my light, i could just buy some AI modules with a built in controller. Any suggestions on a light controller for DIY fixture with 4 meanwell 60-48D (looking into adding another 2 with another 24 LEDs

As far as waiting between doses, I wish I could say that I wait between dosing.

Over the past 2 days of the increased dose size, I tested my tank at lunch, I have raised Alk by 2 dkh raising it to 8.5 (elos), Ca has slowly dipped to 400 (elos), and mg is at 1300 (elos). A friend of mine came over with his Hanna Alk tester and says it tested at 11, Ca at 370 (salifert), and Mg at 1200 (salifert). So I am not really sure where I stand, i hate to second guess myself, but the test kits were so different I am not sure where to go from here.

I really am kind of at a loss now. [smilie=speechless.gif]