A couple basic (dumb) sump questions

S

sunset pizza

1. I am installing a hang on overflow box. If I put a ball valve at the end of the drain line and close it, will the overflow box quit syphoning? Why or why not? If it doesn't quit, what's to stop it from overflowing?

2. How do I get the syphon started in the first place. It's a sealife systems standard box with 1 u-tube, 1" drain, etc.

3. How do I "turn off" the sump to feed? I have read about people turning off the return pumps for 20 minutes or so. Wouldn't I need to stop the overflow box from syphoning too?

Thanks for the help. I've haven't had a sump before of course and just can't seem to get my head straight about some of the basic physics. Should have paid more attention during my junior year physics class (20 years ago :shock: )
 
1. No it will not quit siphoning, but if you partially close the ball valve, it may cause your overflow box to overflow. You really do not need the ball valve here.

2. Take some airline hose and feed it through the U-tube to the top of the U tube. Place the U tube into the overflow box . Turn on your return pump to get water flowing into the overflow box. You will then suck the air out of the U tube to create the siphon. Once the siphon gets started it will pull the water through to the outside of the overflow box and keep the siphon going until the U-tube is pulled out of the overflow box.

3. YOu will want to drill a small hole a little under the water line on your return line outlet. This will break the siphon so water will not be sucked back down through the return line. You do not have to do anything to the overflow box because once water stops entering the overflow box, it will keep the water in place and hold the siphon.
 
1) Yes. It will fill up past the lip and then quit. There is no where for the water to go! The problem is if you do that and leave the pump on it will overflow the tank. Just ditch the ball valve!

2) The siphon should start when you start pumping water into it. You may have to play with some air tubing to get the air out. The well designed overflows start siphoning as soon as you start the pump up again. The added pressure from the increased water level starts the flow again. You should really never lose siphon once it's established.

3) Stopping the pump will neccessarily stop the overflow. It will siphon down to it's lip and then quit. It physically can't do anymore. You do have to make sure your sump can handle all the water in the pipes and the little to get down to it's lip so it doesn't overflow. Your return line will need to be drilled so it doesn't create a siphon also!


Edit: Posted at the same time! Double vaildation I guess!
 
Additional answer to your second question. You first would need to fill the overflow box and the drain box (the box on the outside of the tank) to their tops with water. Place the airline tubing up into the top of the u-tube. Place the u-tube into both boxes with each end of the u-tube submerged below water level. Then start your siphon process of sucking air out the u-tube until the tube if filled with water.

If your return pump is strong enough it will add water to the tank at a rate to remove any small bubbles that may try to accumalate in the top of the u-tube. If air bubbles start to accumalate in the u-tube, it could cause the tube to lose it's siphon.
 
One more link:

http://www.melevsreef.com/prime_overflow.html
 
Thanks, I knew those links were there. Just forgot about them :)

One more question. For water changes, without a sump I just pump out 20 gallons of water and pump back in 20 gal through the top.

how does everyone do water changes with a sump?

My tank is 20 feet from the nearest drain (a bathroom) I currently pump the water to the bathtub to let it drain. I hate carrying those buckets of water..
 
I use a 32 gallon Brute trashcan on wheels for my water change, as well as mixing makeup water. I just roll it out the front door and dump into the street. I draw my water change water from the main tank while syphoning from the substrate to pickup detrius. Of course I draw in alittle sand along the way. I then top off in the main tank and then turn. Of course the return pump is turned off during this process so as not to drain the sump. When finished with the water change, I then turn back on the return pump.
 
That's basically what I do now, except I pump it into the bathtub via vinyl tubing and then put the pump in the trashcan in the garage to pum pnew water into the tank.

I just wasn't sure if people with a sump had some other way of water changes. :?
 
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