44 gallon corner lighting

[harial]

ok so I just have a couple of questions. I have had this corner tank since January, but I never set it up because I wanted to this one right so i saved up so I can do metal halides(I

alt=""> birthdays).

How many watts should I have? I am thinking 250, is that enough? too much?

How high from the water should the bulb be? I am not interested in getting a chiller any time soon(broke college student(wrong hobby, right? )) so I don't want to run the risk of my aquarium over heating. But at the same time I HATE the look of those aquariums that are like two feet tall but the canopy is like 3 feet tall. So I suppose I am looking for a happy medium. Maybe someone can recommend a good fan.

Also I don't know the difference between an electronic ballast and a magnetic ballast. Nor do I know the difference between a square or strait pin.

I am thinking a retrofit kit is the way to go since this is a corner. But I know NOTHING about electrical work, but my dad does. I am pretty sure I will order from hellolights.com(since I have heard nothing but praise about them), but do their retrofit kits come with all the parts necessary for making the lighting work. My father will only be in town for a few days at Easter before he goes back to Atlanta and he told me that he would be able to build my canopy for me and do all the electrical(though I'll have to do the staining and sealing myself) in that time but he wanted me to have all the necessary parts already at the house. So if anyone can think of ANYTHING that I should get on the off chance that he will need it, I would really like to know about it.


thanks. sorry for being long-winded(I like to talk
:wink: )

 

[Rick]

First you said you had a corner tank, but I did not see what size it is? Second the amount of light also depends on what you want to keep, as well as the concerns about over heating. Both electonic ballasts and magnetic ballasts can run metal halides. The electronic ballasts are more expensive, they run cooler and usually take up a lot less space. The magnetic or tar ballasts while being less expensive, run hotter and are usually mounted in some box that takes up a little room. They usually burn bulbs hotter, which means a little more par(light) out of the same bulb. But than can also mean they do not last as long. And usually the megnetic ballasts also use a little more electricity. The metal halide bulbs come in either mogel (single ended) bulbs, much like you might screw into a regular socket. Or they come in double ended or (HQI) which are bulbs very thin with contacts on each end. The HQI or double ended bulbs are usually mounted in a enclosed pendant with a glass cover all in one piece. The mogel or single ended you can buy the reflector, mogel socket, and wiring all in pieces or together and mount them however you want in a canopy (retrofit).
Square or straight pins is a difference in power compact bulbs. In each case the end of the bulb has four pins on it lined up straight or the four in a square pattern. This end of the bulb meets up with that type of power compact socket where the bulb plugs into. Most people today I think have the power compacts with the square pins.
My metal halides are nine inches above the water, from water surface to bottom edge of the bulb. And if the canopy is made with an open back and holes for fans to blow air through the canopy you should be fine as far getting the heat out. Cooling is all about evaporation, so the more air circulating around the water, the more cooling effect you get.

 

[harial]

i think I am doing the screw-in type. This one in particular.
http://hellolights.com/25methalbalk.html

I just measured the tank. it is about 25 inches tall, 25 inches deep, and 30 inches wide. Is a 250 watt bulb okay?

 

[Rick]

I think one 250watt MH bulb with a good reflector would be okay. You might think about some actinic supplements.

 

[harial]

@Rick wrote:

see when you say it like that it makes me scared. "with a good reflector" and "okay" are not quite the words i am going for. Is "okay" good for clams and sps, or just LPS and pretty zoos that will only color up under metal halide?

At the moment I am not planning to keep any sps(since I don't think they look very nice) but a lot of people have told me that they were the same way but that they did eventually prefer sps. So I just want to make sure that on the off chance that I want to keep sps that I will be able to with the 250 watts.

But I DEFINITELY want to be able to keep clams at some point(when I am not so broke).

I also have the option of getting a 400 watt retrofit kit instead of a 250 without much difficulty. I was not sure if this was too much lighting and heat for my tank(since there will be no chiller) but if that is a better choice and the heat can be controlled with powerful fans(I looked at those lasko "gucci" fans that were talked about a little while ago), I can go with 400 watts.

But like I said before, I want to do the lighting right the first time, so opinions please.
thanks

 

[Rick]

Sorry I did not reply to you sooner, I have been busy. But I would not put the 400 over your tank. I think that would be too much as well as gearte more of a heat issue. Reflectors can make a difference and you might as well look at them. I know this article is probably way more than you want to know. But you can skip down the bottom if you want and look at the chart. You will see some reflectors spread out the light better over a given area. Some that have higher par levels at one height above the water, while others are better at a different height.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/feature.htm

 

[harial]

I was actuslly contemplateing getting a bunch of little 1" mirrors from the hobby shop and glueing them to the reflector.

 

[fperkins]

This is unfortuately one of the more difficult aspects of the hobby. Even the "experts" don't agree on the "best" lighting for aquariums because mimicing the light from the sun at the reef depth (with clouds, waves, stuff in the water) is rather difficult.

I found http://www.marshreef.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=4 to be an interesting read but, as with most articles on this subject, gives generalities of "find out where th creature came from and duplicate that, but they are somewhat flexible so close enough might work, but for the most part everybody is using too much light of the wrong type, too much gunk in the tank, and not enough of the kinds of food corals need."

So - does that help that for the most part everybody is in the dark over lights?

I would agree with Rick 400W is too much. 250W may be as well but should be okay. 3 - 5 watts per gallon of water is the normal recommendation but the type and spectrum is still not all that clear.

I have 13K MH (came in the fixture) but am considering moving way down (6500K). I realize the overall tank color will change but if that is closest to real sunshine isn't that what we should do. Beats the heck out of me but I am investigating.

 

[Amanda]

Heather, when I had that tank I hung a retrofit over it from hello lights. It was a 175w electronic ballast, with a spider type reflector. I built a small box to hang it from the ceiling and it lit that tank very well. With that said, I would go for a 250 over a 175 if I had the choice, but the 175 did just fine. Also, there are many nice 12k & 15k bulbs that would eliminate the need for any supplemental lighting.

Oh, and I kept a large Squamosa clam on the sandbed and all other types of corals in that setup.

HTH

 

[harial]

hey guys, thanks for the responses.

i think I will be going with a 14 or 15 K bulb(depending on where I order it) because I really like the blue glow from it(shallow but true). And I was looking at the reflector in the picture that comes with the kit and I was a bit underwhelmed as it looked a bit dull. I don't know if that is what it will look like when it gets here but I may just end up buying a new reflector in the end if I am not satisfied with that one.

But I have a couple of other questions as well and i figure since this is my thread it's okay that I ask them even though the original purpose of the is thread was for lighting.

I am not planning to do a sump for this tank(yet?) as the stand is not made for it and also because i just flat don't plan to have any fish besides my one little clown fish and possible another to keep him company. I am not all that keen on the look of fish anyway and getting Paris(the clown fish) was kind of an accident. I plan to have a lot of live rock and since my little 12 gallon nano cube seems to be doing fine for my one fish without a sump, I assume a 44 gallon would be fine as well. I will be saving up to buy a Remora Protein skimmer and just hang it on the side at night but is it okay to go without a sump as long as there are minimal fish?

Also I basically plan to put powerheads onto the back glass at varying heights and then put rock over and around them so that only the exit fan-shaped-thingie is visible. I am thinking maxi-jet 1200s but I am not sure how many I should have or if I should go with another pump.

Also my tank is a corner and not a cube so i was wondering if places like lowes or home depot would cut the glass so that it would fit the opening? Also its it standard practice to install the glass into the canopy to protect the bulb? i think that would be easiest.

Also(lots of those, right?) while i don't have a lot of extra cash i do have a lot of patience so would it be okay to just buy a bunch of rocks(not LR) and regular sand cheap and just add my nano stuff(which is live and coraline encrusted) to that and let it grow over time. Would I have enough biological filtration from the rocks and sand in my nano cube to tide the animals(that I already keep in the cube) in the tank over till the dead rock becomes live. I would not add any more animals(except maybe some snails). Or should I just add a few live pieces and wait a couple of months and then add my animals from the cube? Cause I just can not afford to buy the amount of LR needed for this tank.


Again sorry for the long post
Harial

 

[auroraglo]

Harial-
I have 14K hamilton lights and I really like the color. In regards to your questions I don't think that you have to have a sump. I had a hang on the back refugium on my 20g tank for 3 years as my sole form of filtration (in addition to live rock) and it worked for me. You may decide to do small water changes more often until you get your skimmer.

I would avoid putting glass over the tank, especially if you are putting up metal halides. The open air against the surface of the water helps w/ evaporative cooling of the tank.
The maxijet idea for your circulation is a good one. The location of them just depends on how your aquascaping turns out... and it never looks exactly how you picture it in your head. I would start out w/ 2 or 3 if it were my tank. Have you read the posts on the modification of the maxijet to create more flow?
I would try to buy someone's liverock that they are selling off of the board. As for sand, there are several people that puchase sand from home depot. I did not do that so hopefully someone will chime in on the specifics.

Sharon

 

[harial]

i will most definitley be doing more water changes.

Also everything I read says that there should be some sort of barrier between the bulb and the water. is that wrong?

 

[harial]

well my parents most definitley will NOT allow me to hang stuff from the ceiling. I may be able to get my dad to rig something up that will instead suspend the light some other way. but I really did not want the light shining into the room but rather for it to be limited to the tank.

 

[auroraglo]

It sounds like you should have your dad help you build a canopy for the tank. I do not have glass between the lights and the water... but the lights are 12' from the surface of the water. It's not the safest or most ideal situation, but it's working so far.

Sharon

 

[harial]

well, my dad already said he would build the canopy for me for easter when he is in town.

12 inches... I'll ask my dad if he has any other ideas. He is super smart about these things.

thanks

 

[Rick]

@Rick wrote:

Matt I guess you got that great idea from what I posted earlier. :lol:

 

[chevytrks]

i had a 45 gallon corner and i used a 175 watt and 2-36 watt actinics.
i had fans mounted on the back, hope these pice help. I made the canopy 12 inches tall.

 

[chevytrks]

I ultimately made the canopy open on the side and rest against the wall. The first two pics show it opening in the back, but it was too unstable that way.

 

[harial]

@Matt wrote:

holesaw? do you mean a jig-saw? I am thinking that I will have my glass kinda far up and have three pc fans(if not something bigger) installed on the top, and then have my super-#1-ultra-cool big fans below that blowing onto the water. I had already planned to have the back open. Since it will be facing the wall, there will be no problem with aesthetics but I also hope that this will help to aleviate some heat.


@auroraglo wrote:

But yeah as far as my dad "helping me", I'll be lucky if he lets me hand his tools to him as he builds. He is a mechanical engineer so he is a bit anal :lol: . He is a really good woodworker and he actually built the desk that this computer is sitting on as well as a lot of other things in out house.

I would not really mind the extra three inches so much but I am so afraid that some how some water with get on it and it was die on me. Is'nt there a problem with salt creep if you don't have glass? Also what wood(or other material) would be good for this project and able to take the heat of the metal halide?

thanks
Harial

 

[auroraglo]

Some canopies are made of plywood and some are of solid wood (more expensive). You need to make sure you place spacers between the halide reflectors and the canopy. I have 1/2" thick acrylic spacers w/ holes drilled through them to allow me to attach the lighting to the canopy. Just a thought.

Sharon