29 gal/ugf/old school thinking - 29 starter project

S

Shino

[I'm starting slow and (by the advice of my Marine Biologist contact at work)...starting simply. Looking for an undergravel filter for a 29gal. Though they sell new for 20 bucks so i'll probably head to LFS. I know there are some who frown upon these but this should do the trick. I plan on stocking the tank very lightly so the bio filtration should be plenty. Besides: UGF= $15; HOB filter = $140. I have heard that they are adequate. That affore mentioned co-worker has a similar set-up in his office for a year now and it is doing great). Course I will always keep an open ear. I also need to know how big of air pump I would need to run a UGF for a 29g.

Lighting is proving to be a headache. Advice or an old used set up for a 29g would be very welcome (monitary compensation would of course be provided).

If all goes well will be upgrading with sump and refugium (20 gal tank I already have lying around) and some easy corals. With that in mind if some one has a suggestion for a filter set up for now that could later be incorperated in a sump/refuge set-up that would be appretiated. But for right now the LR, LS, a fish or two and some recordia will be about it. Trying to take this slow and learn along the way.

P.S. Still trying to get live sand too. On a limited budget. This will def. be a frugal learning adventure.

Thanks in advance,

Michael]
 
[I would use an AquaClear HOB filter before an UGF. They are dirt cheap on the internet. $15-35 depending on what size you get. If you have enough live rock and a small skimmer you would not need the HOB filter. There are many options you could go with.

Mike]
 
[From what I hear, sand is too fine for an UGF and will just clog it and make it useless. So, if you are set on using a UGF, I would think crushed coral would be a better option for a substrate than a fine sand. Just my 2 cents...]
 
[Yes if you are going to use a UG filter you need to use crushed coral.

I would consider a protien skimmer for $140 rather then a HOT filter, or is that what you are talking about? 140 seems pretty expensive for a hang on filter.

Nothing wrong with a UG filter, just don't get more then a few small fish.]
 
[you could even try a skilter...they aren't that great out of the box, but with a few simple mods it makes a great hob skimmer. I ran it on my 20 gallon at college before it was reef ready.]
 
[Michael, if you plan this to be a reef tank, then I'm going to discourage the use of an UGF. I had one in my 29g for years, and could never get the nitrates down.

You can put a DSB (4" sandbed) if you like, which will remove the nitrates as the sand matures over 6 months.

A HOB Protein skimmer would be idea, such as the Aqua C Remora. Those come up for sale on our board from time to time, and you should be able to get one for $100.

Lighting can be VHO, PC, T5 or even a single MH bulb. Watching the For Sale area will yield you some great deals.

A few powerheads in the tank will create flow.

You are already discussing a sump, which coupled with a protein skimmer and DSB should work great. You'll want to acquire Live Rock, and that too comes up for sale here. 30 to 45 lbs would be a good number.

I had a 29g going for 7 years. You can read about it on my site.
http://www.melevsreef.com/29g.html

You might look at this page as well, since you are just now making your plans.
http://www.melevsreef.com/overview.htm

Keep asking questions before you make decisions and spend your hard earned money, and we will help you as best we can.]
 
[Thanks to all. Few questions, comments, concerns:

1. DSB = Dense sand Bed? (not to familiar with all tha acronyms yet. Gotta go easy on me. :D ) Types a sand to consider? I was gonna go all argonite.

2. It sounds like I can forego any filtration if I propagate a good sand bed, lots of live rock, and only have a few fish (later). Maybe just a power head and air stone? I don't mind waiting. From what I've read, I like the "Berlin Method." It's natural, cheap, and simple. I'm not a fancy guy (nor a rich one).

3. Marc, I've actually spent a good bit of time poking around your website and studying your setups. Lots of good stuff. If anyone sleeps on this they are really missing out. Nice job with the site, Marc. Truely impressed. :bow: It was your site that sold me on the refugiums (love the step-bystep-DIY stuff). Deffinitly the way for me to go in 6 months or so.

4. Was considering a single MH. It looks like by the time you get done setting up all the PC you would need for a reef tank your pretty close to the price (or over) for a simple single MH setup, which seems like it would be better anyway (may be a small actinic in addition but that would just be astetic reasons).

5. I regularly "prowl" the for-sale forum. It is a great place to pick up good deals. Will be getting some LR (20lbs) from Jason this weekend as a result. Plan on Propagting the rest over the course of the next 6-8 months (see my other Newbie post "Growing Live Rock" in this forum). He is also hooking me up with some LS (I'll be sure to get lots). I think i also want to add some macro algae to the mix so I will have it ready for the refugium. This way I figure I can start with a handful and by the time I'm ready for the 'fuge, I'll be good-to-go. (Where to get macro?....).

Thanks again for all the input! This site rocks! I missed this months meeting but I'm 95% sure I will be at the March meeting. Planning on joining DFWMAS (work may even foot the bill being it is semi-related...gotta work the system! Power to the People!!....sorry.) Anyway, hope to see some of you there!
:beer:]
 
@Shino wrote:
[(Where to get macro?....). ] said:
[People give it away around here all the time. Just watch the sale forum or maybe even post on the wanted forum. I just trimmed mine back. I'll have more in a few weeks, so if you don't have any luck in the forums before then just PM me.]
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[DSB is a Deep Sand Bed. The basic rule is that it is good for 5 years. At that point, you need to tear the tank down, suck all of it out and start with fresh sand. FYI, there are guys that had problems at 4 years, and others that are still happy at 8 years. So it really comes down to any number of factors. I ran a DSB in my 55g for two years and loved it.

You don't need an airstone in your tank, and usually we avoid adding bubbles to the display as they obscure your view. A protein skimmer (Aqua C Remora for you! ) would be what I'd recommend, and it will oxygenate the water nicely without adding bubbles to the display.

Thanks for the kind words about my site.

MH lighting would be great. Be sure to put a cooling fan in your canopy to push in cooler room air and force out the hot air that will accumulate. You can put the fan on a timer, so that you tank doesn't get too cool at night when the light is off.

You can grow the macro algae whenever you are ready. When I did my bulb test, I just used some tank water from my reef to provide the nutrients, and put that in a 10g with a heater, two powerheads and the light bulbs. You can grow some now in a separate container, or wait until later. Whichever you prefer.

The next meeting is at PetOrama in Bedford, on the second Wednesday of the month.]
 
[Good stuff. DSB sounds like the way to go. I've just pulled off a few articals on them. I like it. That's the plan. As far as the expiration date of 4-6 years; by that time my setup might be very different.

Aqua C remora, huh? How about something like the Red Sea Berlin Air-Lift Protein Skimmer with Second Nature Challenger II pump that is up for grab in for sale section @ $20 work? Could place in a 20 gal split 10/10 sump/'fuge?

Or is this just a waste and I should wait to spend more money on something like the Remora? I realize the remora's probably worth every penny, but will the Berlin setup be sufficient, better then nothing, or not worth the bother?


Thanks again!]
 
[I don't know the answer to that skimmer question because I've never used it nor even seen it.]
 
[Same answer as Marc, but I can add, and most will agree...save the money and buy the better product at a later time. I have all kinds of cheap stuff trying to save a few bucks that were not worth the money and ended up buying the quality products later. I wish I would have just been more patient and bought the better stuff when I had the money.

Mike]
 
[Sound advise Mike, Thanks. I will be waiting...now the quest for power heads. Thinking of using 2 or 3 lower gph then 1 bigger one. One med. on surface and 2 smaller on bottom to creat a good current. Will be assembling DSB and LR this weekend. Wish me luck.]
 
[I have a Maxijet 1200 that has never given me any problems. Really cheap on the net too $18. I have heard that the sweeping type power heads tend to not sweep after a few months. I have never had one though.

I can tell you first hand the AquaC makes great products. You will have to fork out the money their stuff, but well worth it. I have a Renora skimmer and have been very happy with it. The MJ 1200 is used on it.

Good luck this weekend,
Mike]
 
[Michael, you could put 2 MaxiJet 1200's in your tank, with no issue at all. A 75g at 10x turnover is 750gph, which would be the bare minimum. Three MJ1200s adds up to 885gph. No problem. Many hobbyists have 20x or 30x turnover in their tanks. Mine is roughly 35x the tank volume, and with careful arranging my sandbed stays where it belongs for the most part. ;)

I have a few of those powersweep powerheads in a box. If you are buying them because they swivel side to side, don't bother because in that aspect they are junk. Plus they aren't the easiest pump to clean.

Since you are trying to control your spending, just go with the Maxijet pumps for in-tank flow. Later on, we'll try to talk you into a wavemaker power strip, or a closed loop with either a SCWD or an OceansMotions device. We're notorious when it comes to recommending things you can do to make your tank even better. :devil2:]
 
[
We're notorious when it comes to recommending things you can do to make your tank even better. said:
So I've noticed. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I love learning about all the cool gizmo's and customised setups that are out there. That's part of the fun. In fact, i plan on getting a book on "aquarium plumbing".

Michael said:
I was thinking one 1200 at the top and 2 of the smallest (600's?) maxi jets at the bottom. Funny thing was I was looking at the sweepers too. But Mike and Marc just dissed the h*#l outof them so it doesn't look like I'll be getting those.

ANyway, I always right back too much. Thanks once more for the input. Really do appretiate it. Off to the rock quary in the AM. WoOHOO! That should be fun.]
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